Are you a terrorist? Are you sure?

[Marcus]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,7348229.story

[Prater]

Thats too funny. They screwed the pouch on that one.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by Prater

Thats too funny. They screwed the pouch on that one.

Its not funny if you are one of the people put on a terrorist list.

[Fis_Hunter]

Intresting I will have to read more later. I thought this comment was intresting.

Critics say such investigations violate constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and assembly, and serve to inhibit lawful dissent."

I got the impression that they were free to say what ever they liked, it would only be a problem if the speach was a conspericy to commit a crime.

How does it inpair your right to free speach if someone may be listening I thought that was the point of free speach.

Being added to a watch list I would want to know why.

[Fis_Hunter]

People have bombed abortion clinics burned down houses and destroyed Vehicles and buisnesses in the name of all these causes. I guess you could say there could be terrorism there. I would think it is thier job to find out.

[Prater]

Bill,

I think it is funny that the investigation got leaked, and was a poor investigation. Whoever leaked it I am sure did so because of something completely irrelevant to the investigation.

I am sure its not funny to those beeing investigated, but if I was the top tier of a movement that can be considered a threat of domestic violence I would expect to be under some form of survelience. You think all the wanted eco friendly groups started off violent, or just worked up to the point were they became radical?

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by Prater

I am sure its not funny to those beeing investigated, but if I was the top tier of a movement that can be considered a threat of domestic violence I would expect to be under some form of survelience. You think all the wanted eco friendly groups started off violent, or just worked up to the point were they became radical?

You must have read a different article, or not read this one very closely, if you think these people could be considered a threat of domestic violence.

Investigators, the files show, targeted groups that advocated against abortion, global warming, nuclear arms, military recruiting in high schools and biodefense research, among other issues.

A hell of a lot of people on this board have advocated against abortion. Should that get them on a terrorist list? Where should I send their names?

Most of the files list terrorism as a "primary crime" and a "secondary crime," then add subgroups for designations such as antiwar protester.

Some contain errors and inconsistencies that are almost comical.

Nancy Kricorian, 48, a novelist on the terrorist list, is coordinator for the New York City chapter of CodePink, an antiwar group. She serves as liaison with local police for group protests, and has never been arrested.

"I have no idea why I made the list," she said. "I've never been to the state of Maryland, except maybe to stop for gas on the way to Washington."

Josh Tulkin, 27, a registered lobbyist with the Virginia state Legislature, is cited under "terrorism -- environmental extremists." Tulkin was deputy director of Chesapeake Climate Action Network, an environmental group that claims 15,000 members and regularly meets with governors and members of Congress.

Hell, I've protested the war in Iraq repeatedly. Does this make me dangerous? Should I find out I'm a suspected terrorist when I try to board plane to go to the Expo in Ft. Lauderdale in February?

You may be comfortable with big brother watching everyone, but you could always move to Russia or China if that is the society you want.

[sciencemike]

My best friends roommate was taken by the FBI for doing a domestic terrorist act against an auto dealership here in Los Angeles(News Report against him).

Working at a lot of Uni's we see terrorist acts against workers who do animal experimentation and its very serious to the people who are the targets of these nut jobs. Environmental extremists, American Taliban, and the animal activists use terror to enact change. This is terrorism, of course a few innocents are always going to be labeled as guilty. Isnt that to be expected, but hopefully rectified? But to protect against people who value their cause more than human life is worth it.


Edit in. Seeing your post above Bill, I also feel the line needs to be drawn somewhere when it comes to our government protecting its people vs. Individual rights. But i also think some of these innocents are not so innocent. You would have never known this guy was a terrorist. He was a very promising young scientist who worked hard and was doing amazing research. He would have been one of these poster children for this report. I can see him being included in the story if he didnt blow up some SUV's. One Day the two guys in suits showed up at my friends house after the terrorist went to breakfast, and took all of his computer equipment. Then within 1 minute of his gear being taken the suspect was arrested.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by sciencemike

My best friends roommate was taken by the FBI for doing a domestic terrorist act against an auto dealership here in Los Angeles(News Report against him).

This is terrorism, of course a few innocents are always going to be labeled as guilty.

Especially if you investigate groups that have never been involved in a single instance of illegal activity.

[Tino Bernazzani]

Sounds like she was a newbie to the whole undercover thing.
Maybe they wanted her to start off small before she tried infiltrating the American Al Qaeda???
Personally I think she should have started with the PTA.
Ever been to a heated PTA meeting?
Some of those mom's mean business.

[jackpine savage]

People think its funny but the easiest way to erode the Constitution is to infringe on the rights of the people you find most offensive. Just because someone doesn't like the message of an organization doesn't mean that message isn't protected by the Constitution.

[Prater]

OK guys,

lets just stop the investigations until something bad happens and then we can go back and blame the government agencies that they did not do their job...People just want something to bitch about, first its rights violations, then its governments lack of responsibility all over again. Where the hell does it say that agencies dont have the right to investigate a person? Iguess all that work for the ABLE Commision I did back when I was 19 was wrong because I did not tell them they were under investigation for illegal activity...

[divefilm]

I particularly liked when the FBI took a woman in san fran away as a terrorism suspect a week after 9/11. She is a jewish lesbian who runs a lesbian newspaper, and they thought she was helping the 9/11 terrorists.

If THATS the FBI thats doing the investigation, I would say it doesn't matter WHO they watch, they will **** it up somehow.

And who cares if people blame the gov't? Does any one ever get fired from the gov't? Is accountability a part of gov't service?

No.

[sciencemike]

Originally Posted by divefilm

I particularly liked when the FBI took a woman in san fran away as a terrorism suspect a week after 9/11. She is a jewish lesbian who runs a lesbian newspaper, and they thought she was helping the 9/11 terrorists.

If THATS the FBI thats doing the investigation, I would say it doesn't matter WHO they watch, they will **** it up somehow.

And who cares if people blame the gov't? Does any one ever get fired from the gov't? Is accountability a part of gov't service?

No.

Come on, just because she is a lesbian and a jew she cant be a terrorist? I have known some pretty hard core feminist's in my day and i wouldnt put it past a few of them to do Terrorist acts. -one even cheered when the WTC was attacked.

I think we all admit there are mistakes? But the #1 purpose of our government is to provide for our safety, liberty and prosperity come second. And we know that mistakes will always be made, its foolish to think otherwise, and when millions of people are being investigated a few will get on the wrong list.

I hate George Bush just as much as the rest of you do, but homegrown terror should be investigated, and when "expose" journalism seizes upon a few eggs that are sorted wrongly, I think we need to be thankful that the teeth on the comb are fine enough to get some false postitives. Quite honestly when I see these people on the list who are "innocent" it makes me feel confidant that they are out there searching for the ones who arent.

Seriously is anyone out there on spearboard on one of the watch lists? I was given a pretty good workup a few years ago when me and my brother bought last minute one way tickets to our grandfathers funeral, and we share the last name of one famous bomber, the combination of the two drew some kinda red flag. We missed our plane but they put us on another one. It was no BFD. I consider this one of those stories that doesnt affect anyone who knows anyone that I know, yet homegrown terror affects almost every University Campus that does animal research, or any doctor that does abortions in the south.

[HurricaneBK]

Here is something from a textbook of mine on counterrorism strategy I was reading this morning to study for my final.
"Obviously, most people are in favor of protecting animals and saving the environment. However, most people do not send letter bombs to corporations, set up boobly traps intent on injuring loggers, or firebomb department stores that sell furs."
Of course you're entitled to an opinion and your first amendment rights, but murder, bodily harm, or intimidation, even against loggers, animal researchers, or abortion doctors, is still illegal.