Rain/Red Tide Questions

[Chris Oak]

Out of curiosity, does anyone remember how bad or how long the red tides lasted after the last big el nino event of 97? I can remember seeing the red tide line off pv/san pedro for quite a distance and for a few weeks at least.

I wasn't freediving then but I'm sure some of you were, do you remember what month the red tides got bad and for how long? I'm guessing with all the runoff as soon as the water warms up we are going to experience some algal blooms

[Bill McIntyre]

I'm not sure if it was 97, but I recall red tide clear out at the islands and late into the summer.

[Wind_in_his_hair]

It was bad by Memorial day on the North side. I don't recall diving that summer at all around PV. March, April and May were epic for wsb much like last year. We had bonito right below the tennis court trail. I took my PB halibut under the red tide memorial day weekend at RATS.

Mike

[NihilisticMisanthropist]

Originally Posted by ladvr

It was bad by Memorial day on the North side. I don't recall diving that summer at all around PV. March, April and May were epic for wsb much like last year. We had bonito right below the tennis court trail. I took my PB halibut under the red tide memorial day weekend at RATS.

Mike

just out of curiousity, how big is a PB halibut from the so cal halibut master? consider your average fish seems to be bigger than my pb, im gonna guess and say mid 40's?

[Nate Baker]

I don't think the red tides have anything to do with rain. I've always felt that was a myth. The really bad red tides were in (I think) '03 and to a lesser extent '04, which were average rainfall years. The following year we had a lot of rain and red tides weren't all that bad.

For what it's worth, here's an abstract from a Google search. It's a bit dated.

Surface chlorophyll (CHL) measured at the Scripps Pier in the Southern California Bight (SCB) for 18 years (1983–2000) reveals that the spring bloom occurs with irregular timing and intensity each year, unlike sea-surface temperature (SST), which is dominated by a regular seasonal cycle. In the 1990s, the spring bloom occurred earlier in the year and with larger amplitudes compared to those of the 1980s. Seasonal anomalies of the Pier CHL have no significant correlation with local winds, local SST, or upwelling index, which implies that classical coastal upwelling is not directly responsible for driving chlorophyll variations in nearshore SCB.

The annual mean Pier CHL exhibits an increasing trend, whereas the Pier SST has no evident concomitant trend during the CHL observation period. The interannual variation of the Pier CHL is not correlated with tropical El Niño or La Niña conditions over the entire observing period. However, the Pier CHL was significantly influenced by El Nino/Southern Oscillation during the 1997/1998 El Niño and 1998/1999 La Niña transition period. The Pier CHL is highly coherent at long periods (3–7 years) with nearby offshore in situ surface CHL at the CalCOFI (California Cooperative Fisheries Investigations) station 93.27.

[Chris Oak]

I sure hope that's the case, I'm bummed about missing most of the 2010 bug year from these storms and it would suck to lose out on wsb this spring and yellows this summer if that red tide comes in.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by tomol

I don't think the red tides have anything to do with rain. I've always felt that was a myth.

OK, I'll take your word for that. But warm water kills kelp, and that sure hurt my wsb hunting when its happened in the past.

[Scottywotty]

Originally Posted by tomol

I don't think the red tides have anything to do with rain. I've always felt that was a myth. The really bad red tides were in (I think) '03 and to a lesser extent '04, which were average rainfall years. The following year we had a lot of rain and red tides weren't all that bad.

For what it's worth, here's an abstract from a Google search. It's a bit dated.

You may be right Nate, but there is a coralation between spring rain and red tide. More often than not just about anytime shortly after a rain will trigger a red tide, I suppose it could be a coincedence, but a bit to frequent. And I do agree, I think that real bad red tide year was 2003, worst I've ever seen, clear out to Clemente! Ruined the whole of summer spearfishing.

Scotty

[Nate Baker]

Originally Posted by Scottywotty

You may be right Nate, but there is a coralation between spring rain and red tide. More often than not just about anytime shortly after a rain will trigger a red tide, I suppose it could be a coincedence, but a bit to frequent. And I do agree, I think that real bad red tide year was 2003, worst I've ever seen, clear out to Clemente! Ruined the whole of summer spearfishing.

Scotty

I hear that a lot. I just think we get rain in the spring and we get red tide in the spring.

Bill, your right. I'm more concerned with kelp loss than red tide.

[freeride]

The "red tide" are trillions of dinoflagellates that proliferate out of control. caused by a 1-2 punch of rising deep ocean temperatures brought to the surface by upwelling and, the accumulation of man made food for them in the form of sewage and industrial runoff sometimes transported by rain.

[Wind_in_his_hair]

I always associated blooms with sunlight. Sounds like there are a lot of factors at play.

http://cimt.ucsc.edu/factsheets/2HaB_Factsheet.pdf

[rojodiablo]

Originally Posted by tomol

I don't think the red tides have anything to do with rain. I've always felt that was a myth. The really bad red tides were in (I think) '03 and to a lesser extent '04, which were average rainfall years. The following year we had a lot of rain and red tides weren't all that bad.

For what it's worth, here's an abstract from a Google search. It's a bit dated.

I think it is the timing of the rain, and how much urban much has 'stacked up' prior to the rain. We got a heck of a lot of rain in March and April, and I feel the rain being so late had a lot to do with that super red tide.

[oceanhunter1]

Originally Posted by Bill McIntyre

I'm not sure if it was 97, but I recall red tide clear out at the islands and late into the summer.

I remember something like that happening in '04.

[ralphthehalibut]

to get a good solid (read as bad for us) red tide you need 3 things...

1: food for the plankton (runoff)
2: cold water
3: sun

This year, we have 1 and 3 (3 is pretty much a given in socal) but the wate r has been warm all winter (normally we wait for it to hit th emagic 58-59 for WSB but it has never dropped to the normal 52-56 for midwinter) so I don't think we'll see massive red tide a la 2003-2005

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by oceanhunter1

I remember something like that happening in '04.

That sounds more like it. I wouldn't be able to remember anything in 97.