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Old 09-30-2019, 08:09 PM   #1
Andy Yanke
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Angry (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

I continue to buy things that break or come defective. Last time, it was AB Biller Gun, went through 2 of those before I gave up and went with a Pathos sniper-R 95. But lost out on the $70 in shipping on those.
Now, I buy some fairly expensive fins ($450 with foot pockets) that fail on my 3rd dive with them. (I've attached the photos).
I won't name the company since I feel they deserve to see my email with photos and respond before I try and help anyone else from making the mistake of buying them too.
I've invested A LOT of money upgrading gear as I've progressed and learned the last 3 years however I'm pretty sick of these back to back issues.
Now I have this paranoia of being in the ocean without fins that I've never had before which is terrible.
I was a quarter mile down current from my only know safe access where my truck was parked on a Cliffside. With one broken fin, and one that was about to break, I strapped everything on the buoy and used my arms for the next hour and a half.

If anyone has suggestions on fins, I'm 6' tall and athletic (at least for a 32 year old) about 190lbs and I need to start shopping for my next fins that hopefully don't get the curse of my luck too.
YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR as I learned with these last fins... I just want something I can trust 100% and is pleasing to my eye. Something that wont leave me sodomized with another $35 hit for return shipping or leave me drifting on a current until someone hopefully finds me.
Let me know your opinions. I can't get opinions for other divers here in Oahu since you seem to need a social media life to message anyone these days. "Oh, DM me.." how to you suggest someone who's only active social media account is on spearboard should send you a message? Pisses me off.
Anyways, Mahalos in advance. Hopefully I can end this long bad luck stream.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:20 PM   #2
Alec
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

That's a real bummer. Good carbons shouldn't break in that spot and should be warrantied on the spot. I've beat the shit out of the past few sets i've had, granted they're all $500+ carbon fins. Including scuba commercial multi day trips, pushing off the bottom pulling fish out of ledges etc.. Good luck!
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Old 10-01-2019, 02:05 PM   #3
Marco
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

It looks like you pushed from the bottom with them. Did you?

Regarding brands, I've had very good experience with C4, Carbontek and Pathos.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:40 PM   #4
Andy Yanke
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

Yes, Sort of. The fin was hung out over a ledge so I had stepped (tried) with the arch of my foot.. Regardless, these were 3 dives old and failing in the same spot on the other fin as the one that failed. I don't typically push off the bottom but even if I needed to, these should have been designed around the possibility that the consumer would eventually do that. Especially since it's a Spearfishing company and not a multiple discipline company.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:46 PM   #5
Andy Yanke
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

UPDATE: So the company sent me a return shipping label. They want to look at them to see if the failure falls under warranty. I feel its not even questionable with having the exact failure points on both fins regardless of the fully broken one having had a small nudge off bottom that gave a small scratch... I've had bigger scratches on my Eye Ball! Not something you expect from a $450 pair of fins.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:40 PM   #6
Marco
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

They are not designed to be pushed from rocky bottom. If you want to do so, get some cheap plastic blades and replace them when they break (yes they will also eventually break).
I don't think they will be covered by the warranty. But good luck. Sometimes companies prefer to loose some money rather than getting bad reputation over the forums etc...
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:14 PM   #7
Andy Yanke
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

Hey Marco,
The fin that broke completely wasn't pushed off bottom. In fact, the fully broken one has one minor scratch on the top side of the fin. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be covered when they both failed at the exact same spot on 3rd dive. I've had these for 3 weeks. This sort of comment makes me nervous and certainly wasn't one I expected. I understand these may not be designed for pushing flat off bottom (which I did not do) but I've had some Mares plastic fins for 3 years, bought them used, and they have been through hell and are still chooching.
With all this said, I am a Structural Engineer (Concrete Reinforcing) and though I'm not an expert in Carbon composites, I know these have a 26° bend where the fatigue broke on one and almost broke the other. I assume this bend was more sharp than what it should have been so fatigue occurred much more quickly.
The same failure on 2 fins on a 26° bend, 3 dives old, wouldn't be tolerated by any consumer.
I appreciate the input though! I hope you're wrong but you've prepared me for a shocking response from the company I absolutely wouldn't have expected without your comment.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:26 PM   #8
Marco
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

I didn't want to say it, but I am also an Engineer as well (Mechanical).

If miss-used, a carbon fin will fail on the first dive. Mostly at the same exact point where yours did. No matter if you paid 250 or 1000$ for them.

You can't jump in the water fins first, you can't push off the bottom with them and you have to be careful that no one walks over them when in the boat.

Plastic fins are more forgiving. Maybe you're not ready to use carbons.

But good luck, maybe you get a refund or replacement.
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:28 PM   #9
hydroid
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

I have an old pair of Leaderfin composite carbon/Fiberglass mix and I've done all the bad things to them, Jump out of the boat, push up from the bottom, throw guns on top of them etc. A buddy of mine (big guy) got the Pure Carbons the same week and they broke the first trip out, ouch.
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:43 PM   #10
Andy Yanke
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco View Post
I didn't want to say it, but I am also an Engineer as well (Mechanical).

If miss-used, a carbon fin will fail on the first dive. Mostly at the same exact point where yours did. No matter if you paid 250 or 1000$ for them.

You can't jump in the water fins first, you can't push off the bottom with them and you have to be careful that no one walks over them when in the boat.

Plastic fins are more forgiving. Maybe you're not ready to use carbons.

But good luck, maybe you get a refund or replacement.
As I mentioned, it wasn't a push off the bottom... The FIN was never laid on bottom or pressed off of in front of that bend. The fins were only ever put on in the water (never put on out of water and then dropped feet first.. I know better) and were only stored laying flat on a rack. Anyone who knows me knows how compulsive I am with taking care of my gear. I definitely strongly disagree about "not being ready for carbons". I have dive buddies that bought carbons as their first fins that are still being used just fine and they don't even take care of their gear. Out of all suggestions you've given, not one has been that the manufacture (JBL) has provided a fin with a poor design or poor manufacturing. I'm diving 60+ feet (±40 secs bottom time) with my plastic fins and waited 3 years to upgrade just to improve my down time as I've heard over and over that carbon fins are much more efficient with the energy put into them.
I'm not one to argue with experience however I'm certain I've done nothing to cause the same fault in 2 different fins within 3 dives all less than 3 hours long each.
Nevertheless, I still appreciate your input. It's given me insight on what I should clarify with the manufacture. Mahalos.
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:05 PM   #11
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

I dove Cressi Hf2000's for years and never had a failure. I would cut chum on them with a sharp knife on the floor of the boat. Jump in feet first, push off the bottom and everything else that would break a typical carbon fin. All of my dive buddies started buying expensive carbon fins and bragging how great they were and about every other trip one of them would break a fin. It was quite comical. Well about 15 years ago I won a pair of DiveR fiberglass fins in a tournament. I still have those fins today. They have been around the world several times. Won countless tournaments and keep on ticking. I did buy a pair of the DiveR pure carbons about two years ago and love them. Super smooth and very comfortable with the DiveR poor pockets. I wear them every weekend and have drug them around the world as well. That said, I highly recommend the DiveR product.
The other fins that I highly recommend are the GFT Carbino's. I have a couple of friends using them for the past couple of years with no problems.
We dive hard and abuse our gear. If it passes our use and abuse, I can recommend any product with confidence.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:58 PM   #12
Castronova
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

Well GR beats me to it again.

First off, there is no way that company can look at that and definitively blame you for breaking the fin. All fins that are either not made well or defective will break at that bend/curve.

Second, I've now used DiveR carbon fiber for what must be closed to 10 years. I do not even think about them. Then get pushed around, scratched, stepped on, any and everything you and your dumb friends can do to them on a boat on top thousands of dives and they just will not break. I have broken 2 other pairs of CF fins through that time as I like to try other brands. I have Moana Euros and they are great and I do use them from time to time but I will never not own DiveR every again.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:13 PM   #13
Andy Yanke
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tide View Post
I dove Cressi Hf2000's for years and never had a failure. I would cut chum on them with a sharp knife on the floor of the boat. Jump in feet first, push off the bottom and everything else that would break a typical carbon fin.
These are actually the fins I have been using my first 3 years (and again now until I decide on what I will be trying out next). But the efficiency gain going from these stiff plastic fins to the carbon fins (before they failed) was incredible. I don't even want to put them back on... but I'm going to dive 2-3 times a week still so long as the weather lets me... so they will be used again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tide View Post
Well about 15 years ago I won a pair of DiveR fiberglass fins in a tournament. I still have those fins today. They have been around the world several times. Won countless tournaments and keep on ticking. I did buy a pair of the DiveR pure carbons about two years ago and love them. Super smooth and very comfortable with the DiveR poor pockets. I wear them every weekend and have drug them around the world as well. That said, I highly recommend the DiveR product.
The other fins that I highly recommend are the GFT Carbino's. I have a couple of friends using them for the past couple of years with no problems.
We dive hard and abuse our gear. If it passes our use and abuse, I can recommend any product with confidence.
Would you say the difference between Carbon and Fiberglass have noticeable gain in efficiency? I'm really drawn to the look of carbon fins but I also dive primarily reefs, swim-through, sometimes even reefs in surf depending what I'm targeting and I'm almost always laid flat as possible. so if carbons are a risk for my variety of diving then I'll have to take the next best option since there's no way my fins won't be beat up to some extent laying all over the place.

Similar to that question, though I've not done as much research on this but since "hydroid" mentioned it above I'm curious: Is there noticeable difference (efficiency and durability) between Carbon/Fiberglass mixture fins and the All carbons or just Fiberglass?
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:25 PM   #14
Marco
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Re: (Vent) Brand new Carbon fins broke

There is noticeable difference.
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