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Old 06-30-2011, 11:37 PM   #1
drew5546
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Another workout thread

This is a new routine I have started and I was suggesting it to another member when I decided to make it a thread so I could get some feedback. It is a workout geared towards someone looking maintain muscular physique and improve their diving. I am going to alternate between O2 deprivation and CO2 tolerance tables for my apnea workouts. I am kind of experimenting with doing apnea workouts right after the weightlifting. It is definitely difficult but I am not sure about the effectiveness, but from what I can figure it seems like a good way of doing it. Any comments and questions are welcome.

Sunday- Apnea run (sprint 50-75 yards with breath held then jog about 100 yards or until you recover and repeat for a maximum of 3 miles) - finish with diaphragm stretches

Monday- rest - diaphragm stretches

Tuesday- Long run - 5+ miles followed by apnea workout

Wednesday- 5 min elliptical warm up - Pushing workout (bench press, incline press, upright press, decline, push ups) - Diaphragm stretches

Thursday- 5 min bike warm up - Pulling work out (pull ups, one arm rows, upright rows, curls) - Apnea workout

Friday- 5 min run warm up - Leg/core workout (squats, leg press, abs, back extensions, calisthenics) - Apnea workout

Saturday- rest - diaphragm stretches

All weightlifting exercises are performed in 2-3 sets of 12-15 reps except for push ups and curls which will be one burnout set of at least 20 reps.
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Old 07-01-2011, 12:31 PM   #2
Gator97dwb
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Re: Another workout thread

I would move leg day between pushing day and pulling day to give your shoulders some recovery time. Hitting the shoulders with upright rows the day after incline and upright press doesn't allow them to repair. The other benefit is if you are a weekend warrior like me and dive on Saturday your legs will feel better kicking than if you just worked them the day before.

However, at 2-3 sets of 12-15 reps you are using lighter weights and probably not breaking the muscle down too much that it needs time to repair.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:32 PM   #3
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Re: Another workout thread

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I would move leg day between pushing day and pulling day to give your shoulders some recovery time. Hitting the shoulders with upright rows the day after incline and upright press doesn't allow them to repair. The other benefit is if you are a weekend warrior like me and dive on Saturday your legs will feel better kicking than if you just worked them the day before.

However, at 2-3 sets of 12-15 reps you are using lighter weights and probably not breaking the muscle down too much that it needs time to repair.
Incline and upright are almost completely front deltoids and upright rows are mostly rear deltoids and traps though. At least that is how it is for someone with countless shoulder injuries, my shoulders will not allow me to put the weight behind my head when i press it up. But that is good advice for someone who can use proper technique for sure.
As far as the weekend thing, i just plan to rest the day before i go out spearing because there is no telling what day of the week i decide to go out.
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Old 07-01-2011, 07:55 PM   #4
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Re: Another workout thread

Wondering if the apnea workouts should be performed immediately after the cardio / weight-training?

I'm no expert but just thinking that your heartrate may still be up post workout, thus hindering your apnea training?

I would love to hear the pros / advanced divers chime in on this.

Mahalo!!
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:55 PM   #5
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Re: Another workout thread

I tried one about 5 minutes after and I literally could not do it, I am no stranger to pushing myself but it just wasn't gonna happen. I waited another 10 minutes though and I was able to complete a CO2 tolerance table with only a little more effort than usual.
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:52 PM   #6
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Re: Another workout thread

That looks ambitious to do tables after weights; I've never tried that although I like to do diaphram/pack stretches as part of warmdown from strength/cardio training. The difficulty might be more than heart rate; it also could be blood flow since weight lifting increases blood flow to skeletal muscles for a little while and MDR causes the opposite effect. In my experience, MDR usually wins but it seems like it would take longer to kick in if your body is trying to keep your skeletal muscles fed vs just starting from baseline. Who knows though, maybe you figure out something new.

Have you thought about using kettlebells for part of your strength conditioning? I am curious if swimmers are using them nowadays. A long time ago when I used to compete nobody had ever heard of them although we did do weight training (a lot of the same exercises you are doing, with a focus on upper body). I started using kettlebells this year and found many of the swing exercises work a lot of the same large muscles groups in my legs and core that kicking with long fins do.

I see a lot of stuff about apnea running, etc. Besides convenience or SWB related accidents, is there an advantage to these exercises as opposed to doing hypoxic pool training (not tables but actual swim sets with forced long intervals between breaths) when training to increase lung capacity?
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:04 PM   #7
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Re: Another workout thread

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That looks ambitious to do tables after weights; I've never tried that although I like to do diaphram/pack stretches as part of warmdown from strength/cardio training. The difficulty might be more than heart rate; it also could be blood flow since weight lifting increases blood flow to skeletal muscles for a little while and MDR causes the opposite effect. In my experience, MDR usually wins but it seems like it would take longer to kick in if your body is trying to keep your skeletal muscles fed vs just starting from baseline. Who knows though, maybe you figure out something new.

Have you thought about using kettlebells for part of your strength conditioning? I am curious if swimmers are using them nowadays. A long time ago when I used to compete nobody had ever heard of them although we did do weight training (a lot of the same exercises you are doing, with a focus on upper body). I started using kettlebells this year and found many of the swing exercises work a lot of the same large muscles groups in my legs and core that kicking with long fins do.

I see a lot of stuff about apnea running, etc. Besides convenience or SWB related accidents, is there an advantage to these exercises as opposed to doing hypoxic pool training (not tables but actual swim sets with forced long intervals between breaths) when training to increase lung capacity?
I swim competitively with a local masters team and have added kettlebell training to my strength conditioning. I've noticed a significant difference in the pool, especially on hard interval sets and sprint sets; I can work the sets harder than before, and I think it's because of the kettlebell training. I still do work with barbells/dumbells, but I think the kettlebells are better for functional and core strength. The kettlebells are also great for stabilizing the shoulder joint; I've had zero shoulder pain since I started using them.
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:00 PM   #8
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Re: Another workout thread

Yeah, actually one thing I am worried about is whether or not starving my muscles of oxygen right after lifting will affect their recovery and growth. I am leaning towards it not being an issue just because my recovery times are still completely normal and my strength is right where I expect it.

As for using kettle bells, I used to do some pretty ridiculous kettle bell workouts to prepare for fights in the past. They are a pretty great tool for building usable shoulder strength. My problem is that the only gym I am using now is a little 400sqft gym in the front of my apartment complex as I am taking a little vacation from my fighting career. I have very few options as far as good equipment anymore but I am getting by. I would definitely agree about kettle bells being good for swimming too. And the core/ diaphragm stretch cooldown feels really good and I would recommend it to anyone.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:57 PM   #9
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Re: Another workout thread

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My problem is that the only gym I am using now is a little 400sqft gym in the front of my apartment complex as I am taking a little vacation from my fighting career. I have very few options as far as good equipment anymore but I am getting by. I would definitely agree about kettle bells being good for swimming too. And the core/ diaphragm stretch cooldown feels really good and I would recommend it to anyone.
Gotcha, yeah, gym fees can get pretty ridiculous. As hard as you work at it, I am sure you'll see results.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:34 PM   #10
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Re: Another workout thread

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Yeah, actually one thing I am worried about is whether or not starving my muscles of oxygen right after lifting will affect their recovery and growth. I am leaning towards it not being an issue just because my recovery times are still completely normal and my strength is right where I expect it.

As for using kettle bells, I used to do some pretty ridiculous kettle bell workouts to prepare for fights in the past. They are a pretty great tool for building usable shoulder strength. My problem is that the only gym I am using now is a little 400sqft gym in the front of my apartment complex as I am taking a little vacation from my fighting career. I have very few options as far as good equipment anymore but I am getting by. I would definitely agree about kettle bells being good for swimming too. And the core/ diaphragm stretch cooldown feels really good and I would recommend it to anyone.
Do you have any suggestions for some good kettlebell workouts? I've been following a routine by Mike Mahler that I found online (military press, rows, squats, and swings, all using 2 kettlebells, and then Turkish sit-ups using a dumbell), but I'd be interested in learning some other routines that you've had success with. Thanks
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:13 AM   #11
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Re: Another workout thread

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Do you have any suggestions for some good kettlebell workouts? I've been following a routine by Mike Mahler that I found online (military press, rows, squats, and swings, all using 2 kettlebells, and then Turkish sit-ups using a dumbell), but I'd be interested in learning some other routines that you've had success with. Thanks
That sounds like a pretty inclusive workout right there, however i always did the turkish sit ups with a kettle bell too. Another fun one is to do since you have dumbells is a ten yard bear crawl with a heavy one in each hand doing a full row with each step. And when you are ready to step it up a little you can run through a hard 30 second set of each exercises one after the other with no rest. That makes for a pretty extreme 3 minute round. Do that 3 times with a minute rest in between each round and you just turned your weight lifting workout into a nasty crossfit style cardio workout without any additional equipment.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:11 AM   #12
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Re: Another workout thread

Question: I f I hold my breath for as a long as i can in different intervals while on the treadmill, is that a way to improve my diving/breathhold?

I do a lot of treadmill workout, but never with holding my breath
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:27 AM   #13
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Re: Another workout thread

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That sounds like a pretty inclusive workout right there, however i always did the turkish sit ups with a kettle bell too. Another fun one is to do since you have dumbells is a ten yard bear crawl with a heavy one in each hand doing a full row with each step. And when you are ready to step it up a little you can run through a hard 30 second set of each exercises one after the other with no rest. That makes for a pretty extreme 3 minute round. Do that 3 times with a minute rest in between each round and you just turned your weight lifting workout into a nasty crossfit style cardio workout without any additional equipment.
A couple kettlebell exercises that I think helped with kicking (especially dolphin kicking, which uses more core than scissor kicks) are kettlebell pullovers and sidebends. I mostly do kettlebells on my own, doing a lot of power movements, but one reputable gym I go to does group classes with a very experienced instructor and most of his workouts are with lighter weight, 45 mins constant movement (so they become serious cardio workouts), and he builds his sets around a lot of lunge type exercises although I think it might also be safety. ie who wants to do swings in a room with a bunch of other people, doing 45 mins of swings.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:59 AM   #14
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Re: Another workout thread

A lot of good ideas in this thread, I have recently been getting back on the grind, and kettle bells are definitely great way to work multiple muscles in different planes of motion at the same time.

*ONE THING TO CONSIDER, before trying to set a "max" for the intervals that are going to be in apnea, start with half of what you think you can do. It wont feel as strenuous, but you will be able to progress safely by just adding 2 seconds per set. It would be very dangerous to try and just work under your estimated "working time". You will be surprised how long 15sec feels when you only recover for a minute, and are running 3 miles at a 140bpm pace......

P.S. it would be a great investment to purchase a good HR monitor, and Pulse oximeter....both can go for as cheap as $40, so for maybe less than $100 you will be able to monitor yourself more objectively than "percieved effort" which can vary greatly
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:55 AM   #15
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Re: Another workout thread

The apnea running and diaphragm stretches sound ok. The resistance and aerobic parts of the programme are fine for all-round strength and fitness, surface swimming etc but won't help your apnea performance. Well, they might help if you have problems with particular muscles burning out under apnea and losing power, but as a spearo it's unlikely you'd be pushing that hard. I don't think they'll hurt apnea performance in a big way either, so it's a pretty reasonable compromise for somebody who wants to stay fit but also dive.
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