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Florida East Coast Spearfishing Let's talk here about spearing on Florida's Atlantic coast. Reports and other issues about this region belong here.

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Old 09-05-2013, 10:02 AM   #1
chaseJax
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Something Florida Guys Should Think About

Hey guys. I just want to bring something to the board. It might get political and everyone is going to have their opinion on this but this is something I think all people who are in the water, involved with fishing, have any position on current legislation or regulations, or even eat seafood every now and then, need to think about and develop an opinion on it.



My background is that I worked on blue water charter boats since I was 16 and then at 18 worked on commercial boats for 3 years while I was in college. I have a degree Biology and a minor in Environmental studies. Most of my classmates were the ones fighting alongside NOAA and the SAMFC's generic position and I was always the "blacksheep" in class, where 9 times out of 10 I was the only one in debates backing the recreational and commercial fisherman.



Back to today... I am at my last day at my current employeer, which brings me to the actual meaning of this post. I work for a seafood importer that is based out of Miami, where importers 75% of their fish out of Mexico and the rest of it from countries out of Central America ( Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, etc.). It is primarily an importer of Grouper, Snapper, Mahi, Tuna, and Swords, so all the fish that most people are aware of, especially in the Southeast. Most of you have also, been to those countries either on vacation, spearfishing, fishing, surfing, or whatever and might have an idea of where I'm heading.



I'm looking at my inventory right now at work (literally at this minute) and we have 1/4-1/2 snapper (lanes, yellowtails, and silks) by the hundreds of pounds. A couple thousand pounds of 1-3lb Red Grouper. 500lbs of 1-2 and 2-4lb American Red Snapper. 1500lbs of 1-5lb black Grouper. and about 3000lbs of 1-3 and 3-5lb Mahi. This is not an uncommong occurance. I've seen 2-4oz Hogfish fillet, mulitple hundrends to thousands of pounds of, what would be considered by Florida Fish and Wildlife, undersized snapper grouper and Mahi.



I work for one out of dozens of importers JUST in Miami and can't continue to work for this type of industry that I feel is destroying our oceans. Before working for this company I was right beside those walking on the capital when the Red Snapper ban was being passed. I've written multiple papers on the effects that these regualtions and lack of data will have on the commercial fisherman and the recreational angler. I came into this job by the love of fish and the ocean and having the opportunity to work in the arena of my passions was something I thought would be a great opportunity. I was wrong.


My problem is that most things come full circle in the world of fishing with migration habits of pelagics, current flows, and spawning happening in one area impacting other neighboring areas. A huge problem I see is that we are denying our tax paying commercial fisherman on the Atlantic coast the ability to catch ARS (until last month where they can keep 75lbs pre trip) while we are importing hundreds of thousands of pounds of the same fish out of the Gulf of Mexico out of the Yucatan. American Red Snapper are not the only example either. Grouper restrictions, seabass closures, Vermillion snapper limits, all the new restrictions and closures that were based out of some sort of gathering of data and research have had an effect on the local commercial fisherman on top of having to compete with prices from a third world country without anyone to answer to. There are barely any regulations ( and I mean BARELY) out of Mexico but still most importers use the phrase "sustainable" or "traceable", which means less than FDA approved Organic produce or meats.



It sickens me that we have these regulations put in place but cannot control what we import and hold to the laws we put in place for some sort of "scientific reasoning" in the states. Over 75% of the seafood American's eat is imported which means that it comes from a country with little or no idea of preservation (ie Mexico and Central America). I have been told by suppliers that nothing that is brought on the boat leaves the boat and ends up going to market.



I could go on and on and hopefully this can start a thread and that we as anglers, and also some of you who have contacts or relationships with people in legislation can talk about this because it needs to be discussed. I know that there is no way that the U.S. can implement any sort of laws or regulations directly in Mexico, but I can state that there was a Grouper season ( that lasts one month) that is implemented off the Yucatan that was originaly brought about by the US government talking to Mexican officials. What I DO think is a viable option and thought is that FWC can make it very difficult for importers by just stationing officers at airport terminals and checking packing list.



For example...An importer and also a wholesaler or retailer, can get fined for having undersized state regulated species (like Red Grouper or Yellowtails in Florida) even if they are imported. The problem is that this NEVER happens, for reasons I don't know exactly why.



The best way to make any sort of impact is to impact the people with the money (importers) and I think can be very simple and have a huge effect. Miami is a huge hub of importing so just starting there would be a huge beginning of trying to cut things down. Hopefully, the end result would be that importers and packers would stop buying certain sized fish and that Mexican and Central American fisherman would stop focusing on these sized fish and move on to more legitimate sizing and in turn weed out a lot of fisherman.



This is just a conversation starter and I hope that it get's some response and that you start asking question. I know that I will NEVER support seafood importers, which unfortunately means that most restraunts and wholesalers are going to get cut off my list of places to eat and buy from. It is not in the hope that my $20 is going to make a huge impact or change the world but hopefully my philosophy and the reality that those who enjoy the fruits of the ocean look to preserve it. Most of us have heard and believe that a "bad day on the water is better than a good day at work" and that translates into "being in the water and seeing what is below the surface is more important than filling the cooler" (even though thats pretty great). For the future of our fishery, the sports, and our oceans this needs to be brought up and talked about.



Thanks for reading this and I know there's a lot that I didn't bring up and that there are gaps that need to be filled but hopefully this is a good starting point.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:14 AM   #2
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

I think a good start is the requirement of all restaurants and seafood sellers to state exactly where the fish is coming from. Then educate people to buy local. This is what is done in Europe. In Italy for example the fruits and vegetables are identified where they came from. And even though the local food may be higher in price the consumer may still buy from them to support them. Also the quality will be better.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:28 AM   #3
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

Most newer restraunts understand that local and domestic is the new craze and can reap benefits from it. There is also an issue that even if they did specify it from what the wholesalers told them, it could be false. An example is that wholesalers will label their fish "Gulf Caught *insert fish here*" and mix it in with local or domestic fish. Very commonly will wholesalers mix in importered mexican grouper with their domestic fish to price average and get an advatage over competition. A company that I'm growing fond of is Gulf Wild fish. Truly traceable and gives a "personality" to every fish that someone buys. Check them out http://mygulfwild.com/ .

Quality is going to be huge too. Most of the Mexican boats for grouper are longer trip boats averaging 10-14 days. So if you think about it, fish gets caught on day 3 its a week old before it hits the docks, 3-4 days to get to Miami, and then depending on if it is sold that day or that the flight made it in time for trucks, it can take another 3 days in transit if its going to Texas, the Mid-west, or the NE. So you are looking at a fish that can be over 14 days old, when it gets to the wholesaler and then however long it takes to get to the market or to your plate.

Thanks for the response Robert.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:07 PM   #4
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

It is my understanding that all fish must be of legal size no matter the origin.This is supposedly Fla law.Can anyone clarify so
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:12 PM   #5
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

I can easily verify. The company I worked with had a legal suit back in 2011 with 1-3lb Red Grouper and the state. Their argument was that origin of the species was documented and that there should be no punishment. The owner told me that he paid $30,000 in legal fees and tried to get other importers to fight back but none of them wanted to get into the battle because of money and that the chances of them getting caught were very slim and that they would pay the fees rather than try to get the laws changed to suppor them. The fees were 40 hours of public service because of a first time offense.

Since then the company I worked for still imports 1-3lb Red Grouper and there has been no legal issues because they are not checked.
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:51 PM   #6
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

Complicated issue!

If we are to close or limit the import based on our closures... these other countries will probably just ship it to Japan.

Maybe enforcing size regulations or closures would help? But I think in this global market... the undersized / unsustainable fish will still be killed and shipped to the next hungriest country.

Even with the ARS closures... our own government condones / subsidizes the mass killing of 100's of thousands of ARS with each rig they detonate in the gulf. Would you believe the company that does the work is considered a "green" company and receives grants for all the environmental good they are doing?

I think we should treat our oceans like we treat oil.... go to war with anyone that threatens it. it is just as much of an attack on our people... if not more... than anything going on in middle east. After all... you cannot eat crude.

Extend our definition of US territory on the seas out another 200-300 miles.... and actually enforce or "work with" the local government like we do everywhere else....

And if foreign vessels come into our shores to steal our resources... sink them.

Some people might think that's an evil way of looking at it... we can't just claim stake over the seas... why not... we do it for other resources.. just not so close to home. We pay billions of $$$ to all of our neighbors... cut them off if they do not comply. Take additional actions if they don't.

If we can't get our neighboring countries to actually acknowledge that they have millions of their citizens violating US law every year... then there is no way any kind of diplomatic pressure will get them to stop destroying the natural resources. It requires a more direct approach.
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #7
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

I'm glad that you express the same sort of anger and frustration that I do and you are exactly right. Small fish will go to Japan or some other country and it isn't just the US doing damage. Japan has already done tons of damage on Tuna out of Mexico. I know that the NOAA 2020 initiative is to have a worldwide, sort of UN, agreement for fisheries, but I don't think that is an actual solution.

Would I love to see our goverment take actions like you were talking about? Yes I would, but is it a reality? Doubtful. Just like 100days stated, Florida law is suppose to inforce Florida regulations, but they really haven't. We already have laws in place to make an impact if we just put them into effect.

Just like I know that by me leaving this company, the world won't change, but I don't want to be apart of this industry and I feel like thats the best decision. Even if we implement our laws and regulations and fish get diverted back into the local Central American markets or end up going overseas, that's one less place that the fish can go and it ends up helping our local fishermen.
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:51 PM   #8
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

China is bribing the countries in Latin America. The Punte de Ammistad or friendship bridge, and the new soccer stadium in Costa Rica, are payoffs for allowing commercial fishing rights. The politicians are bought. Tough issue for sure!
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:59 PM   #9
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

Sadly, I think there is no way to force people to do what is right. The only solution I see is long and slow. We start working on the culture here to support local and sustainable resources, and hope that the rest of the world doesn’t take too long to come to their senses. For my part I try to point out the horrors of commercial seafood to everyone I meet and encourage them to collect or buy “diver select” (speared) seafood as a more ethical and healthy alternative.
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:57 PM   #10
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

I still don't know why we are eliminating the idea of stick a couple of FWC officers at airport terminals who can read a spanish packing slip, identify what my be suspectable product and size for Florida and start establishing fines? I know it seems small but I promise you in an industry where importers obtain the HIGHEST risk in the product chain and usually the LOWEST margins, you could make a huge impact with little effort.

I see this as a very viable option to start things off. Yes I agree that the most of the world could care less about sustainable products, that if we don't buy it most likely will go to some other bidder, that the by-catch of commercial netting, long-lining, and polyball fishing is ridiculous. Also, that there is screwed politics going on in certain Central American countries just like there are anywhere else, but something needs to be done and why Florida's Law Enforcement can't start things off by, again what I think, would be a huge impact on Nation wide distribution of un-ethical sized fish.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #11
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

I can say a lot about this but I'll just say a little and let people look some things up. While somewhat different than ducks and deer, fish are eventually going the way of both or extinct. We need to look at how waterfowl specifically attained international treaty protection before they were lost. Wild animals have never been able to sustain commercial harvest practices.
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:33 AM   #12
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

Opinions are like>$$#@!#$
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:06 PM   #13
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

Money talks Bullshit walks......Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day , teach him to fish and he will decimate the seas.
You biologists should know that "Natural Selection" will in time result in fish that cannot be commercially harvested, albeit they will taste bad, be less than one inch long or live in the abyss far from human technology.
Just give nature a few million years and she will work it out.
All things considered, the ocean life was here before us and will be here long after we have destroyed ourselves.
As Hillary said "what difference does it make now".
The Passenger Pigeon was mighty tasty, as is Red Snapper etc.....etc...etc . What could possibly go wrong!
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #14
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

Great post, chaseJax.

I'll add in that in places like Germany and other places in Europe, people would kill to have the recreational opportunities we're afforded here on the American Island. Having such old civilizations that have exploited their fisheries (and other resources, of course), their citizens enter lotteries over who can fish for trout in a stream. We are VERY fortunate, even if we've had our RS cut so we can figure out more about them. (Can of worms, I know)

Like you said, the world ocean ecosystem is a spider web of interconnectedness. Our grouper may have come from eggs birthed in the Carolinas, or the gags off Georgia may have come from parents off Canaveral. 'Tis a very complicated situation, because in order to protect our fisheries, we may have to--based on research--convince our neighbor nations to protect theirs...hard to do if, at the same time, we're paying them NOT to.

How do you (and others on here) feel about domestic aquaculture of marine species?

-Matt
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:47 AM   #15
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Re: Something Florida Guys Should Think About

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100days-a-year View Post
It is my understanding that all fish must be of legal size no matter the origin.This is supposedly Fla law.Can anyone clarify so
the problem is NOT - the rule/statue/law.
the problem is - the people/leo/management is only there to collect a paycheck. forget about enforcing the law.

sad but true.
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