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Old 09-02-2014, 08:21 PM   #16
Kapono
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

Well, I'll finally chime in on the conversation. It happened pretty much exactly the way John described it. I'll start off by saying that the few times that I have dove with John we have a pretty safe buddy system going (one up one down) and we're usually within sight or shouting distance from eachother.

I was at the bottom at around 25'-30' retrieving a calico, and upon my ascent I heard a humming noise accompanied by a dark figure that seemed to be coming a little too close for comfort, then I finally realized that it was a prop and hull about ten feet away from me. When I finally surfaced, I immediately heard Johns warning and was just in time to see the two guys staring down at me as I flipped them the bird!

All in all I am glad that we are both safe and made it back home to our families and loved one's. I learned a valuable lesson, never under estimate the ignorance of others and always have a dive flag deployed. I will be investing into a flag this week... A video of the confrontation is pending.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:34 PM   #17
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

I did not realize that you don't need a flag to dive in california, at least according to this article.

http://www.dive-flag.com/California.html

Here in florida, you absolutely need one and the enforcement agencies actually use lasers to check the distances.

http://www.spearboard.com/archive/in...p/t-49026.html

Sounds like you guys were following the law, but you will never get rid of the unsafe boaters. Like others have said, be careful out there.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:49 PM   #18
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

I think general consensus would be no flag here in Socal, especially if you're on a shore dive. I can understand using one when launching from a vessel or off shore, but like one of the comments above stated it would generally be a hassle do to the kelp. But that being said, I would clearly rather deal with the hassle now rather then get mangled by a prop.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:05 PM   #19
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

The point is that flags will help but a lot of people are still completely ignorant of divers. Even with the flag, be prepared to defend yourself.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:22 AM   #20
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

would it be illegal to drop a couple of anchored floats that hold flags to mark a divers range, say one hundred yards apart?
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:24 AM   #21
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

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Originally Posted by CDMdeepbreather View Post
Hate being underwater and hearing a motor moving closer....

Glad you're ok.
Is it me or do they get louder the deeper you get. I get freaked out all the time.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:55 AM   #22
IrieSpearo
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

A human adult cannot get mauled by a boat and survive. This is true if you are shore diving. Hence dive flags are great tools in your arsenal. So glad you guys are ok, I shore dive extensively, mostly from .5 mile to 1.5 miles out (shallow here), oftentimes on my own, had many close calls. One thing I have learned is that race boats are almost imperceptible under water, so vision, not sound, should be your guide. I still have nightmares ****... Never dive if you see one, even if it looks so far away, as they cover great distances very fast...Normal boats are easier to evade but since you don't know which one you will meet I do a 360 degree visual inspection, every time before diving (pain in the ass, but necessary). Just don't go all crazy with your neck, after a few hours could bother you. Once in a while you will miss one, so abort a dive immediately if you hear something. If there are many boats the noises also get mangled, so visual of all boats is a must. This is very safe as long as you see all the boats. The thing is, if you are free diving and you see a boat from far, you just have to move out of the way, no big deal really, I do it all the time with people that get too close, its the one you don't see that's could get you. The dive flag has that important role helping you deal with all that misery, the one that got through your senses (vision, sound) but luckily caught a glimpse of the dive flag. Hope you guys can find a way that the dive flag don't get tangled in kelp (no kelp here so don't know even if that is possible).

I know you are shook up by the experience, could be the closest to death you have been for a while, or ever, but I guarantee that the mini-miseries of constantly replaying what could have happened will make you safer divers, it has to me. Again, very glad you guys are ok and able to enjoy your families. Take care!
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:21 AM   #23
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

Glad you're safe. I disagree with those who suggest a state-run boater safety test will solve the problem. I agree training would be good, but the way it is proposed there are too many question marks. The fees can change at any time, the requirements and administration are unclear. We all want safety but we don't want to create a new agency with new enforcement and unrestricted power. We should opposed that legislation.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:27 AM   #24
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

i don't use anything more than a kelp carrot in our local beds because the boat traffic where i frequent is minimal.

i did just buy a Rob Allen 12L float and flag combo for Catalina though because there is a ridiculous amount of boaters, whether owners or renters, that cruise near the shore.

http://www.neptonicsystems.com/rob-allen-floats.php

even if i'm not going to be running breakaway, i'm going to find a way to keep the flag near me. maybe clip it to kelp or something.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:13 AM   #25
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

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Originally Posted by kengolding View Post
I did not realize that you don't need a flag to dive in california, at least according to this article.

http://www.dive-flag.com/California.html

Here in florida, you absolutely need one and the enforcement agencies actually use lasers to check the distances.

http://www.spearboard.com/archive/in...p/t-49026.html

Sounds like you guys were following the law, but you will never get rid of the unsafe boaters. Like others have said, be careful out there.
Correct, one does not need a divers flag and two if the flag is used:14 CCR § 7008 read it carefully! And we all know because of kelp we as a diving community do not a law requiring diving and divers to use a flag.
§ 7008. The Divers Flag.
(a) A red flag with a white diagonal running from the upper left hand corner to the lower right hand corner (from masthead to lower outside corner) and known as the “Divers Flag” shall when displayed on the water, indicate the presence of a person engaged in diving in the water in the immediate area.
(b) Recognition of this flag by regulation will not be construed as conferring any rights or privileges on its users, and its presence in a water area will not be construed in itself as restricting the use of the water area so marked.
(c) Operators of vessels will, however, exercise precaution commensurate with conditions indicated.
(d) This flag may be displayed only when diving is in progress, and its display in a water area when no diving is in progress is that area will constitute a violation of the regulation and of section 659 of the Harbors and Navigation Code.
(e) Nothing in this section will require the carriage of a divers flag for any purpose.
Note: Authority cited: Section 659, Harbors and Navigation Code. Reference: Sections 650, and 659, Harbors and Navigation Code. read it carefully:
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:23 AM   #26
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

Quote:
Originally Posted by carrasco View Post
would it be illegal to drop a couple of anchored floats that hold flags to mark a divers range, say one hundred yards apart?
Better to answer your question this way considering what title 14,
14 CCR § 7008 states about the divers flag, thus a answer is and not limited to: you have no privileges or rights nor would you be entitled to be deemed with privileges and rights marking a divers range.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:48 AM   #27
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

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Originally Posted by Blue Man View Post
Glad you're safe. I disagree with those who suggest a state-run boater safety test will solve the problem. I agree training would be good, but the way it is proposed there are too many question marks. The fees can change at any time, the requirements and administration are unclear. We all want safety but we don't want to create a new agency with new enforcement and unrestricted power. We should opposed that legislation.
Blue an has it correct. A person with the ability to understand, once upon reading the proposed bill now before the Governor, can see, can rationalize, that the wording in this bill does nothing to ensure motor boat operators will in some way be a safer. This bill, if signed into law, will create where there was not before, a crime. A inflectional offense occurs anytime a person operates a motor power vessel without having obtained an boat operator card. This means as an example, a 12 year old who takes the motor dinghy boat, inflatable, skiff, from the dinghy dock to his or her moored boat would be in violation of law if such person did not have a boat operators card.

The fees can change at any time is correct. The fee's will increase annually under this bill; the States inflation cost adjustment index ratio will apply.

Nothing in this bill states the boat operator card program is limited to a one time only levy. The boat operator operator card program can be assessed on an annual basic and or subject to the DBW determinations.

Should this bill pass, don't be surprised that now "free" boat operator training programs become fee associated.

Please read the bill and see and understand it's limitations. If the intent is have have safer boat operators, this bill does not ensure that and in all actually this bill is nothing more than another levy to boat boat owners.
http://www.boatus.com/Assets/www.boa..._Bill_2014.pdf

Check this out from this bill:The bill would require an amount not to exceed $4,000,000 to be
transferred, upon appropriation in the annual Budget Act, from the Harbors and Watercraft Revolving Fund to the Vessel Operator Certification Account in the form of a loan to be used by the division to develop and establish the program
And how do they plan on getting the money to pay back the loan? The bill would require the division
to repay the loan from fees received from the issuance of vessel operator
cards within 8 years of the effective date of this act
Guess what, it's likely a new enforce branch and surely the already established enforcement officers will become realized under pressures to issue citations because "they" in order need to repay this loan of 4 million back, which can only be paid back via "cards" and "citations" ! The bill would require the division on or before April 1, 2019, and annually thereafter, to prepare a report that contains specified information, including, among other things, the total number of vessel
operator cards issued and the number of violations reported to the division.

Last edited by Awabiman; 09-03-2014 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:38 PM   #28
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

No privileges when flying a dive flag? That sucks!

Well, I heard that "If it's your boat- yada, yada"

I still would not like to be the boater that is trying to explain to a judge how he is not responsible for running over a diver that was clearly displaying a dive flag!

I look both ways before crossing the street and towards every cardinal direction each time I dive. I have too little hair upon my melon as it is! I am not trying to get scalped by a prop!
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:54 AM   #29
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

Dang! Two of my diving partners nearly get smoked at once? Take it easy boys... Glad you're both okay. Sucks about your float line and your thumb John. Did they cut your float line?
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Old 09-05-2014, 05:47 PM   #30
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Re: Almost hit by boat - Catalina

It got a bit mangled by the prop, but surprisingly it wasn't completely shredded. It should still be fine to use though, so that's good. My thumb is 100% again; it took about 2-3 days so not bad.

I have a flag on the way in the mail =)
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