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Old 09-06-2015, 05:55 PM   #16
Bob Ballew
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

...Whatever you choose, slip tips should have the following characteristics: fit should be a little loose on the adapter but, not wobble to the point it twists sideways and falls off; taper angle on adapter should allow the point to slip off even when you test it by putting sideways pressure against the adapter with the tip as you pull it off (this side pressure is what will occur as the fish takes off and the tip deploys) if it binds, you will lose the fish; the point should be as sharp as you can grind it for good penetration against bone (tri-tips are great for penetration) and the cable or spectra should go thru the tip in a location where it toggles equally in both directions...if the toggle area cable has a loop, the loop should fit loosely, not tight against the slip tip or it won't toggle properly alongside the fish....also, machining should be smooth inside the slip tip and on the angle of the adapter...any rough areas will cause the tip to bind as the fish puts side pressure against the 90 degree angle of the protruding tip/shaft...
...That said, the old Charlie Sturgill 5" slip tips were the best quality I have ever found based on the above criteria...but, in all honesty, haven't had the need to try the newer designs like Mori et al, makes, as my 40 year old gear still works perfectly...
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Old 09-06-2015, 08:59 PM   #17
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

So,,,,

Do you all tuck the tail end of the spectre into the bands?

My friend tucks it under shooting line at muzzle.

Do you tape off a point to prevent slide ring from sliding further down?



Let's see some pics of set ups. I got a new gun getting built and I'm planning the set up now. Just ordered a mori tip.
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Old 09-06-2015, 09:13 PM   #18
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

[quote=SCOTB;2068422]So,,,,

Do you all tuck the tail end of the spectre into the bands?

My friend tucks it under shooting line at muzzle.

Do you tape off a point to prevent slide ring from sliding further down? [quote]

I tuck tail end under the bands. I usually load the first two bands and then stick the tail end between the second and third band just before loading the third band. That way it is already tucked between the bands and I just pull it out some to load the tip. Seems a little easier than tucking it between the bands once they are all pulled back.

I also tape off the slide ring.
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Old 09-06-2015, 09:50 PM   #19
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

I tuck under the 1st band loaded and also tape the shaft.
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Old 09-06-2015, 10:37 PM   #20
Bob Ballew
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

I don't trust spectra or mono, as, any raised edge in the drilled hole thru the point will cause wear and a weak spot from the spectra rubbing against the edge, even when the hole is rounded off with a deburring tool...you may not see it but, will find out soon enough when it parts on a big fish..I use rubber coated ss cable with crimps but, that only works on a big gun with some firepower..it may create too much drag on those underpowered euro guns that are fast but, have little shock impact....
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:56 PM   #21
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

The main reason I figured why others (and myself) can manage to take the long shots and still poke fish with slip tipped rail guns, is mostly because the tip only need to go in 6-8 inches before it needs to toggle, maybe less to land said fish. Mori slip tips certainly give you a better advantage. It takes a tweaked and tuned up gun to shoot completely out to the end of the wrap and 'drive nails' perfectly all day long, but it certainly can be done. All arrows aside, you REALLY must work on the Indian as well....

In low vis application where you aren't taking a long shot i think most people just eventually learn the sweet spot on their gun. That said...my longest rail guns 150 and 160cm, use single floppers and single wrap. Only my 140 uses a Mori slip tip it uses a single wrap as well..

I spend silly amounts of time in the canal and in my shop/office working and tweaking my band/shaft setup for each gun I own and make, trolling the forums is a HUGE part of this too....Trust me when I say it, the pay of is certainly worth it. Most twin 14 (and 16) 9/32 spear single wrap railguns should have no issue with taking anything down. It when you start adding a second wrap, more (thicker)bands, with the idea that it actually helps anything is where people start missing fish, and taking shots they really shouldn't be taking. That extra drag from the mono really takes a toll on the spears inertia, combine that with a slip tip (extra weight) and you will have a janky setup at best. Unless you have 3-4 bands, then that just creates a whole different set of issues.

Less is more in most cases and going back to the basics is sometimes needed to on these rail guns. Also, loading a single wrap is a breeze. When you find the single band tune for your gun then you can cut the reload time even less, but you loose flexibility when your rail gun can only shoot one power, unless you have a rest tab to de-power it for the hole shots...

Kyle porker has a 90cm pathos rail gun set up with a single-single for a reason and swears by it, pretty sure that 1 gun has killed more fish then 5 of mine...

We all know Rob Allen rail guns are about as simple as they come, while they have made quite a few tweaks to the components, the fundamentals and the look is nearly the same in his first speargun and the ones you can buy off the shelf today. They used thinner spears when he started off but....were still taking monster sized fish in the harsh waters of South Africa, where going to a local dive shop wasn't an option.

After all these years, the only gun setup with a double wrap is my 59 BW Impaler and its setup with cable, I have both double floppers and a Mori slip tip setup for it as well... Even then I will close as much ground as possible all while remaining as relaxed as possible, play dumb and use fish attractants like chum flashers and the hand jive ...right before I ruin that poor fishies day
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Last edited by kwtony; 09-07-2015 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 09-07-2015, 01:15 AM   #22
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

Bringing up a point that only my reckless idiocy would reveal, Mori tips are softer than some others, and will take damage from being shot into structure.
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Old 09-07-2015, 06:15 PM   #23
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwtony View Post
The main reason I figured why others (and myself) can manage to take the long shots and still poke fish with slip tipped rail guns, is mostly because the tip only need to go in 6-8 inches before it needs to toggle, maybe less to land said fish. Mori slip tips certainly give you a better advantage. It takes a tweaked and tuned up gun to shoot completely out to the end of the wrap and 'drive nails' perfectly all day long, but it certainly can be done. All arrows aside, you REALLY must work on the Indian as well....

In low vis application where you aren't taking a long shot i think most people just eventually learn the sweet spot on their gun. That said...my longest rail guns 150 and 160cm, use single floppers and single wrap. Only my 140 uses a Mori slip tip it uses a single wrap as well..

I spend silly amounts of time in the canal and in my shop/office working and tweaking my band/shaft setup for each gun I own and make, trolling the forums is a HUGE part of this too....Trust me when I say it, the pay of is certainly worth it. Most twin 14 (and 16) 9/32 spear single wrap railguns should have no issue with taking anything down. It when you start adding a second wrap, more (thicker)bands, with the idea that it actually helps anything is where people start missing fish, and taking shots they really shouldn't be taking. That extra drag from the mono really takes a toll on the spears inertia, combine that with a slip tip (extra weight) and you will have a janky setup at best. Unless you have 3-4 bands, then that just creates a whole different set of issues.

Less is more in most cases and going back to the basics is sometimes needed to on these rail guns. Also, loading a single wrap is a breeze. When you find the single band tune for your gun then you can cut the reload time even less, but you loose flexibility when your rail gun can only shoot one power, unless you have a rest tab to de-power it for the hole shots...

Kyle porker has a 90cm pathos rail gun set up with a single-single for a reason and swears by it, pretty sure that 1 gun has killed more fish then 5 of mine...

We all know Rob Allen rail guns are about as simple as they come, while they have made quite a few tweaks to the components, the fundamentals and the look is nearly the same in his first speargun and the ones you can buy off the shelf today. They used thinner spears when he started off but....were still taking monster sized fish in the harsh waters of South Africa, where going to a local dive shop wasn't an option.

After all these years, the only gun setup with a double wrap is my 59 BW Impaler and its setup with cable, I have both double floppers and a Mori slip tip setup for it as well... Even then I will close as much ground as possible all while remaining as relaxed as possible, play dumb and use fish attractants like chum flashers and the hand jive ...right before I ruin that poor fishies day
Good point regarding the extra drag created by a double wrap. I have a 120 dual band rail gun that used to have a single wrap. Now I use a double wrap and find that I take longer shots, but miss more fish so think I will go back to single wrap.
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Old 09-07-2015, 08:42 PM   #24
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

On my mori cable slip, I use the cable keeper from neptonics. It keeps the cable out of the bands way and reduces fraying from the cable when it's fired.
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Old 09-07-2015, 10:35 PM   #25
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

How does the drag of a second wrap of line come into play? If you are using a single wrap and the fish is past that distance then the shaft comes up short and you get nothing. If you use a double wrap, then you may get the fish. Of course there is more drag in that situation, but the alternative is no fish.

If you shoot a double wrap of line and hit a fish at less than the single wrap distance, how does the extra (undeployed) line of the second wrap affect the shot or cause drag? The extra wrap would not even be pulled out?
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Old 09-07-2015, 10:51 PM   #26
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

Having 19+ feet of mono setup on a rail railgun doesn't magically add more range no matter how many times you try to ask the same question JFJF . You and I have had this discussion here before already, At 11:43 i really dont want to start it up again, so I keep this as short as possible. PS This is my opinion and simply my observation, you and I both know that nearly nothing is set in stone in this sport.

Between all these VERY heavily tweaked guns...only one shoots a double wrap, and its a 3 banded BW gun, While it can shoot most of the 2nd wrap, thats a crazy amount of distance when you factor in your arm length, gun length AND then the mono and the spears length too...My reload time were cut by 30% and band snags are virtually non existent, even the chance of it happening was greatly reduced, Not an opinion but video evidence supports this. Plus cost and use of mono has gone down.




I replace mono and crimps after every trip, and carry 2 ready made mono setups, even at cost, it can get pricey on an annual level.




The single vs double wrap has many many factors, added drag is simply one of them, I try not to get caught up just on that one issue. ..

JFJF if you like having that (admittedly) extra mono always running the risk of a tangle when you are bubble blowing then America is the place for you.
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Old 09-08-2015, 12:11 AM   #27
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

Been using mori slip tips for over 6 years and never failed and are most accurate tip. Tried a lot of others over the years and non are worth the saving extra few bucks. Esp the spearmaster ther are junk. I had the adaptor bend on a spine shot on a big cobia. For long shots mori only way to go. Taken wahoo over 20ft many times where if it wasn't for a quality sliptip like a mori I know I wouldn't of landed the fish. You can thread the needle with them.
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Old 09-08-2015, 12:24 AM   #28
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

$30 extra bucks to land more fish? No brainier!
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Old 09-08-2015, 12:52 AM   #29
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwtony View Post
Having 19+ feet of mono setup on a rail railgun doesn't magically add more range no matter how many times you try to ask the same question JFJF . You and I have had this discussion here before already, At 11:43 i really dont want to start it up again, so I keep this as short as possible. PS This is my opinion and simply my observation, you and I both know that nearly nothing is set in stone in this sport.

Between all these VERY heavily tweaked guns...only one shoots a double wrap, and its a 3 banded BW gun, While it can shoot most of the 2nd wrap, thats a crazy amount of distance when you factor in your arm length, gun length AND then the mono and the spears length too...My reload time were cut by 30% and band snags are virtually non existent, even the chance of it happening was greatly reduced, Not an opinion but video evidence supports this. Plus cost and use of mono has gone down.




I replace mono and crimps after every trip, and carry 2 ready made mono setups, even at cost, it can get pricey on an annual level.




The single vs double wrap has many many factors, added drag is simply one of them, I try not to get caught up just on that one issue. ..

JFJF if you like having that (admittedly) extra mono always running the risk of a tangle when you are bubble blowing then America is the place for you.
The comment was made that having an extra wrap of line causes problems with drag associated with the extra line. THAT was my question.

I was not really talking about the benefits of one versus two wraps of line.. So where is the extra drag coming from when you shoot a double wrap of line?
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Old 09-08-2015, 10:15 AM   #30
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Re: Mori slip tips vs Everyone else

JFJF - Dude, you're missing an opportunity to plug your favorite slip-tip here.

I think you're slippin. I'm dissappointed :{
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