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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 05-01-2022, 01:28 AM   #31
spearq8
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
Although it is nice to have adjustability in a handle moulding I wonder if that separate block in the handle for changing the position of the camera mount base from side to side was such a good idea. This element is a sliding rectangular plastic block locked in place by a grub screw on top, but it effectively creates a window in the frame. A speargun under band load is trying to twist the rear grip up with the forces being applied through the spear shaft to the trigger mechanism. That coupled with another hole through the frame below and just forwards of the rectangular window slims down the cross-section opposing this cantilevering action the alignment of which I have marked out in yellow. Thinking of the long term rather than anything going amiss immediately. The MVD handle is of similar proportions, but it does not have those holes. What do you think? Especially if the gun is loaded up with the high band loads that the trigger mechanism can endure.
I was totally against the safety and all the additional stuff he put on to add his accessories (Reel, fish caller, camera bracket holder, roller band holders etc...) ... I mean a reel holder I can understand .... also maybe things to allow invert rollers I can understand ... but the camera bracket holder ... really didn't like that at all. I guess he must have enough demand for that where it is worth putting on. As for the Safety ... apparently it makes selling to the US market much easier.
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Old 05-01-2022, 02:29 AM   #32
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

The camera bracket holder base, which plugs in either way to the handle in order to change sides for mounting the camera, fits into a rectangular slot. This slot, which seems to me a not very good idea, is created by a metal insert that sits in the mould when the plastic is injected and when the item cools enough for the injection mould to open up this insert is retracted. That allows the item to be removed from the moulding die and no doubt there are a number of other inserts to produce the other gaps and hollows. If this insert is removed from the die then the rectangular slot will disappear as it fills with plastic, so no big change required to the dies. It could be replaced with an insert that just creates the two attachment holes rather than have them in a removable plug. My Dad made injection moulds as part of his job, so that is how I know something of them.
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Old 05-01-2022, 07:09 PM   #33
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

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As for the Ermessub handle and Left handers, I was told that it is either right handed or Universal handed by simply removing the thumb rest. So for left handers unfortunately they will have to make their own thumbrest for the moment.
Thanks for the info. I have the skill set to make a thumb rest, it's not a problem, but a big part of the appeal to this handle IMO is that it looks ready to go right out of the box no modifications needed (for righties at least)
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Old 05-01-2022, 07:27 PM   #34
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

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As for the Safety ... apparently it makes selling to the US market much easier.
You can barely sell a cup of coffee in the US without including a warning that it's hot.
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Old 05-01-2022, 10:20 PM   #35
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

Will this Handle/Mech fit a US Square Shaft? It doesn't seem to want to fit the ones I have here, I know there's not a complete standardization of US Shafts, but 99% of them will fit into a US Mech like a Neptonics?
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Old 05-01-2022, 10:39 PM   #36
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

I removed the thumb rest from the left hand side of the handle, it is held on by a self-tapper Pozidriv #1 countersunk screw. The handgrip underneath mirrors the other side exactly. The thumb rest interior has two lugs that press into the soft grip handle's recesses at the top, the self-tapper passes through one of the lugs and goes into a hole in the handle. A photo of its inner profile is attached.
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Old 05-01-2022, 10:46 PM   #37
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Will this Handle/Mech fit a US Square Shaft? It doesn't seem to want to fit the ones I have here, I know there's not a complete standardization of US Shafts, but 99% of them will fit into a US Mech like a Neptonics?
What goes in will depend on the nip between the top of the roller "tooth" and the sear box roof. Eurogun shafts have flat top tails and an arc cut-out for the spear tail notch, a US shaft will not fit if the thinnest part of its tail end in the vertical dimension is too thick to fit inside that nip.
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Old 05-02-2022, 01:35 AM   #38
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Will this Handle/Mech fit a US Square Shaft? It doesn't seem to want to fit the ones I have here, I know there's not a complete standardization of US Shafts, but 99% of them will fit into a US Mech like a Neptonics?
I really didn't try that but in the original beta version the tolerances were very tight that even some euro shafts did not fit properly. So there was tolerance added to make it fit all tested Euro shafts. The DR trigger will work ofcourse with square cut shaft as fundementally it is actually a better fit for the DR trigger than euro cut shaft. However there are so many variables with different shafts ... then add to that the different variables of track height of different pipes ... and chances are that it won't work without some modifications. I personally think that for absolute best results the shaft should barely be able to enter the mechanism ... this tight fit ensures that when you shoot, the shaft does not have to jump on the track ... and thus goes out smoothly. This gives super stable shaft flight with very high accuracy and of course very little loss of velocity as the shaft goes through water ... so more retained power downrange without having to add more band power. So best is give it a try and see if the shaft fits ... if it does then it should work just fine ... if it doesn't you have to use maybe a smaller back roller ... say 6.75mm.
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Old 05-02-2022, 02:43 AM   #39
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

If you want to find out the nip size latch the mechanism and push a thin tapering wedge with the flat base up against the sear box roof and see at what point it jams the roller down in its cup on the sear lever. The roller tooth will mark the wedge where it jams and you will then know the height to the sear box roof. Pull the trigger to drop the sear lever and roller tooth in order to get the wedge out which can be made of wood or anything that will mark and not overly crush.
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Old 05-02-2022, 01:42 PM   #40
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

Thanks popgun pete for posting your pictures of the handle, comparing the Huntmaster and with the thumb rest removed. While I'm generally right handed, I shoot left handed as I'm left eye dominant. I actually prefer the universal grip as it allows me to shoot with my right if need be.

I installed Mario's DR trigger mech into my MVD handle, so it does operate similarly to the Ermes handle already.

If I had to be picky, I would like to see a deeper or more recessed anchor point for the roller/invert roller hook. Similar to the MVD one. I typically anchor two pairs there and it's a solid hold. It's hard to tell if the Ermes anchor would safely hold two pairs (two dyneema wishbones.
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Old 05-03-2022, 12:27 AM   #41
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

I wet the “Avatar” handle down so that things would slide more freely and removed the stainless steel grub screw using a 1.5 mm hex key. The camera support insert is a very close fit, so I used a rectangular plastic drift and a soft faced hammer to tap it free while pushing on the flat surface between the two holes in the insert. A couple of light hits and it was free. You can see on the top face of the insert that there are three alternate positions marked with holes for different offsets, although the reality is you could clamp it down anywhere with the grub screw provided you drilled another hole. When you push the insert back in it needs to go in square as there is no side to side rocking as it is an exacting fit with zero gaps. Hats off to the injection mould makers!
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Last edited by popgun pete; 05-03-2022 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 05-03-2022, 02:01 AM   #42
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

Now you can see inside the rectangular slot there is a parting line in the center, so this may be two fixed pegs in the moulding die rather than an insert as I surmised before. When moulds are brand new there is next to no flash as the die parts clamp together with no gaps.

The small bumps on either side of the rectangular hole are what make the insert a tight fit, they are present on both sides of the handle. Because the handle was wet before I took the photos a few residual drops can be seen in places.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 05-03-2022 at 06:35 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:10 PM   #43
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

Without pulling the trigger mechanism out of the handle I think that this must be the one being used. It has the same trigger and the small windows in the housing sidewalls. The name stamped on top will be different. Huntmaster may not be using it yet as no mention of it on their website, at least not when I last checked.
https://ermessea.com/products/hunt-m...-double-roller
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Old 05-04-2022, 03:34 AM   #44
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
Without pulling the trigger mechanism out of the handle I think that this must be the one being used. It has the same trigger and the small windows in the housing sidewalls. The name stamped on top will be different. Huntmaster may not be using it yet as no mention of it on their website, at least not when I last checked.
https://ermessea.com/products/hunt-m...-double-roller
Yes that is the trigger I remember. The sear shaft rollers are a little smaller though. This project started off by trying to "fix" the MVD trigger that was originally on there ... but for me that was a non starter as I know that reverse friction triggers have an inherent problem with galling. Initially it was to try to work with the same MVD box ... but in the end it made a lot more sense to just make a completely new trigger within the confines of the Hunt handle. A lot of the work was already done as we had already designed a switch in DR trigger for both the Pathos D1 and the Pathos D2 handles plus another trigger for a well known company which I am not supposed to share. By far the most difficult trigger to make was the Pathos D2 as it had very small width to fit the trigger (only 10mm !!!). For a full DR trigger you want at least 14mm width to have a full 6mm wide front roller and still be able to use a 2mm wall for the the box.
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Old 05-04-2022, 03:56 AM   #45
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Re: Ermes Avatar speargun handle

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What goes in will depend on the nip between the top of the roller "tooth" and the sear box roof. Eurogun shafts have flat top tails and an arc cut-out for the spear tail notch, a US shaft will not fit if the thinnest part of its tail end in the vertical dimension is too thick to fit inside that nip.
I think I posted this a while back ... with the DR trigger it really can work either euro or american cut shafts ... the problem is not the trigger but rather the design of the shafts themselves. The Euro shafts sit higher on the track than the american cut ... also the cut itself on the shaft is different ... so the spaces of the sears which hold the notch are different. With wood guns you can somehow work within those spaces and get the gun to shoot both shafts with no problems ... but for the sure in that setup the american shaft will shoot more accurate. The reason being that the american cut would have absorbed all the tolerance put in and will be a perfect fit ... while the Euro will have to sit a little different on the track and will have to jump on the track ... thus will destabilize a little ... and lose some accuracy. Most people wouldn't notice that difference though. You can see in these pictures how things are different ... pay attention to the shaft sear and also the front of the box (to see track height).







Of course I looked at all these things and couldn't help but think that it would be great if a universal shaft would be designed ... this would be the best of both worlds. This would make it by far the strongest hold on the sear as it would not have the 90 degree cut of american cut (could cause crack propagation) and yet will be the most robust euro cut ever. Best of both worlds! However it is hard to get everyone to switch ... but it would be a huge advantage for all if the shaft notch would be standardized to this new version. You can see my idea in these pictures which compares a Riffe american cut with a Hunt Euro cut ... this would be by far the strongest of all (top is Riffe American cut ... middle is proposed ... bottom is Hunt Euro cut).

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